The Amphitheatre is Hanging Around My Neck
June 11, 2008
While the amphitheatre has moved forward at multiple times with anywhere from 4 to 7 council votes, this one seems to be hanging around my neck! To me the amphitheatre is a micro-issue for our city but obviously has vocal contingents on both sides. We can build a new firehouse or police academy with little comment and much more expense. Perhaps ongoing debate is because this is a visible, feel good project that all will hopefully use. Perhaps it is lingering sentiment from Victory Stadium. As we all should know this has been a developing issue from the discussions of “hybrid amphitheatres” 7 to 8 years ago but certainly has been an issue since early 2006 when the then council voted for a needs assessment study.
After multiple studies, all offering good information to council but not necessarily supporting an automatic response from us, council was faced with a location decision. This is where the controversy mostly comes from. This was not an easy decision or a slam dunk one way or another- many pros and cons on each side which have been expressed multiple times in many media formats. The bottom line was that I along with other members voted for the river based on many factors, but at the top were more space, greater views and experience, bringing the river/the mountain and the greenways into play, to help develop the Jefferson Street corridor and allow for an improved community amphitheatre (different that a commercial amphitheatre that we are supporting) and more useable greenspace opportunities at Elmwood park and downtown. It was a tough decision but at least this council was willing to make a decision and keep the process moving forward. The Riverside Amphitheatre site is close to downtown, but no doubt urban amphitheatres are more successful if located right in the middle of an urban hub. I have been very aware of this but just haven’t been convinced the space is there and have not had assurances of what we would do with our enormously successful festivals at Elmwood (many planners have felt Elmwood is getting too crowded this year for these festivals!).
We now have a contract underway with the best entertainment management company for outdoor amphitheatres, they have a presence in Virginia, and are clearly on top of their game. Red Light Management out of Charlottesville is NOT a consultant. They are now a major stakeholder as they will manage the amphitheatre for many years to come. It is certainly in their interest to have our amphitheatre be successful well into the future. We should all be excited about the prospects of Red Light coming to Roanoke. Many cities have and continue to court their presence. They also tend to bring development dollars and business partnership opportunities to the cities they come to- including downtown development, residential development and restaurants.
While Red Light has been instructed to design, place and study the river location- given the debate, I have openly given a concession to my not easy location decision.
If Red Light, now as a stakeholder, does not think the river will work as well as a closer downtown location in terms of the economics and future success of a commercial amphitheatre, I encourage them to look at Elmwood or downtown sites as early in the process as possible and I, and probably other council members, would support such a change in focus in their contract.
They are the pros, they are the stakeholders and their advice will be very valuable. I do believe the location decision was rightfully on council’s shoulders- we know the city and we should have a pulse on where the city is headed. I believe the River and the Jefferson Street corridor is ripe for future development. Perhaps the river is the right location in 10 or 20 years, but not now. There are many on both sides of the location debate and I have listened and learned from all. Now it is time to listen to Red Light. My continued and persistent goal, however, is to have a commercially run and operated amphitheatre near our vital downtown within the next few years as a successful quality of life amenity and an economic and vibe driver for our city.
I applaud Council’s decision to just make a decision! Sometimes the most difficult thing for us to do (and Roanoke City Council is no exception) is to just take a stand and move on. Ever since the Victory Stadium debate began (who knows - it may have started before I moved to Roanoke in 1997), I have eagerly anticipated a modern, forward-thinking venue near the river to take in the beauty of the mountains, the nearness of the lovely Roanoke River, and the glory of the Star.
I sincerely hope that Red Light concurs, but trust their decision process as they search out the best location for the amphitheatre. Again, thank you, City Council, for not being afraid to make decisions. Concensus is not always the friend of progress. Leadership is.
I believe that the old Victory Stadium site is a no brainer. There is no design issue, as seen with all of the Carilion new construction. It is accessible to downtown, I-581 and there is plenty of parking, new and old around. It could also appease those die hards that wanted to keep the stadium and those who wanted to keep it until something else was built.
The big issue will be the management. If Red Light is part of the management, then you’ll have talented, progressive money making acts that folks will enjoy and will pull folks from other places in too, like DMB and GD did back when. It is a win-win situation.
I appreciate the hesitation to move forward with a project that has a lot of baggage, however one or two squeaky wheels don’t represent the mass interests of Roanoke now and in the future.
The thing we don’t want to do is have a half hind project that continues to book acts like the Ember, Drifters or 1964 as the Beatles. We can’t take a snapshot of the baby boomers and force it on everyone else too.
Look at the side bands playing at the major music festivals. Get them and a crowd and money will follow. I think it needs to be 7,000 to 10,000 cap. Let’s not under do it.
Randall- very good points regarding management and size, hopefully will begin public discussion with Red Light in a month or so. Thanks for your and Jamie’s early input.
Hey Dave: How do you answer those who feel your support for the Reserve Ave location is rooted in the fact that you have a business withing walking distance of that location which would gain traffic from events held there? Second question. Since it appears that “the business community” tends to favor the Elm Ave location (as well as the Roanoke Times) does this mean you will not have their support should you, GOD FORBID, decide to run again?
Kar- of course in Roanoke any one who is active in business and in politics may run into a potential conflict. I do own a small 50 seat restaurant approximately 5 or so blocks as a crow flies away from the potential riverside site. If you go to this restaurant on any given pretty night (which I encourage you to do and stay for a while) you will probably find a line of patrons. It is what it is: a small, hidden restaurant with a unique menu that fortunately is holding its own in the black. If I or anyone banks on an amphitheatre for the success of a restaurant, we will be disappointed. Keep in mind that I have supported economic development grants to the new hotel and restaurant going in right across the street from the riverside location and at Ivy Market and their potential main street community which will include restaurants about one block away. I also support the concept of a restaurant on Mill Mountain and have strongly backed the upcoming trolley system which will now offer Carilion employees the opportunity to easily get to all downtown restaurants for lunch as opposed to in hospital sites, famous anthonys or my place. If the Roanoke Riverside Amphitheatre becomes a reality there will no doubt be more restaurants in that vicinity which are needed with all the other development going on near Reserve Avenue. If you read parts of this website, I am a strong supporter of more quality of life ammenities for our city and on a personal level am not afraid but welcome competition in the restaurant arena. I do as I say.
I also own real estate in downtown about 5 blocks as a crow flies from the Elmwood site. This building has a restaurant in it. I am also very interested in the potential of putting one of my own restaurants in the downtown vicinity. What to do? Well I did ask the city attorney over a year ago and was told there is no conflict. I also have said right here on this page that I am willing to change my thoughts on location with Red Light’s input- though I am not sure if that helps given my downtown interests. Finally, keep in mind that a major revenue source for any amphitheatre is restaurant quality concessions on-site. The goal of any amphitheatre is for all the eating, drinking etc to occur at the site. Many offer pre and post concert parties.
As to the business community- it’s interesting that you worry about conflict of interests and then point out a clear lack of one on my part. I was strongly supported by the business community in my campaign and now you are saying I am not doing what they want- you mean I think on my own and actually am without one conflict? As for the Roanoke Times- no one elected them and they certainly should not be making the decisions for this city.
In any event, if we are fortunate enough to get a commercial amphitheatre at any location- I wll pay attention to any potential conflicts as they arise and deal with them appropriately.
Good answers Dave. But I thought you and two places there in the alley? Wish I could dine with you but gas prices being what they are I’ll stay home. Maybe you will see some impact from that as well. I hear eating out is one of the things experts tell you to give up to make ends meet. Seems to me that Reserve Ave location provides a little “insurance policy” if you know what I mean. And about the business community. They supported you for what they wanted to tear down and build with that money two years ago. True enough, you have always shown favor for the Reserve Ave location, but my take is that it was “first things first”. First, tear down VS and build “my kid” a place to play at PH…and OK toss one in at WF… whenever, as well. “We’ll worry about Dave and his amphitheatre down the road.” So, will they still support you next cycle? You know, Dave, Harris was defeated for one reason and one only. People did not like him and the way he ignored public sentiment. (Is that one ot two??) With or without the support of the business community, if you have ambitions to run again, I really would encourage you to listen to the citizens and remember, even the “business community” was not really the business community. It was the board of directors and Ed. Right many businessmen really did not like the way the board acted but if you what to be in business, you have to belong to the chamber, so what the hell. I’m just telling you what a lot of businessmen tell me. Happy to see you support the trolly system which will help those poor Carillion employees. Sure would hate to get the beemer out in the rain today. Don’t they have a cafeteria there? Guess that’s just for the poor patients.
I am trying hard not to ignore the public! The problem is some people think their thoughts are the only valid or right thoughts out there. Many decisions have two or more very good sides to them. The location decision from the start had people on both sides- believe me I knew what I was wadding into and for that purpose I met directly prior to the decision with groups that did not favor the river. At some point, council and this city, for that matter, need to make informed decisions and move on. This is what I am about and you will see this as I post other issues. As you can see on this blog- I know none of the people here - we have differences of opinion right above. It is really frustrating to me when a group feels they represent the entire city on a certain issue. This is also the worry I have about bloggers- you tend to live in your own opinion. I get emails, phone calls all the time representing many different sides- you are just one side. And as I said, a valid side on a difficult decision- one which I am willing to reconsider under the right circumstances. Be ready though- if we chose the Elmwood site- the library, the green people, some downtown residents and many others will be vocal against it- especially when it comes time to tear down what has been counted as 250 trees. Again- two valid sides but a decision should be made at some point. Perhaps, like so much in Roanoke- it just gets too complicated, to bold, change is not necessary and nothing happens.
As to your other comments - not sure I follow them- though you seem to think all my decisions are based on ammenities for my kids? Believe me the best I could do for my family is dedicate the time I give to council to them, but if my kids, their friends and all kids in this city have more ammenities to use- I have done a good job in my opinion.
Yes, you did miss the “other” point but that really matters not. It’s old and over.
Also, I understand some issues are complex and some have several opponents/proponents, but so many are really quite simple as well. The over riding considerations should be. 1, Can we afford what we want? 2. Is it the right thing for the good of the majority of citizens. And to that I’ll add that Council allows issues to become complex because they continue to try to wiggle into what they want rather than following the sentiment of the public. But you see, going back to an old point, a good many citizens just do not see any indication that our city leaders really act in the best interest of the city, the notion being that they act in the interest of those in So Roa and at the expense of the rest of the city. I guess I’ve made that point before and you feel you have addressed it but I’m still thinking that Council has a lot of work to do to demonstrate that you understand you are elected to that position, not appointed by God because you grew up in the right neighborhood. And the task is not yours alone, of course. So, I’ll end my dialogue…for now and make one specific suggestion. People speaking at council in every other locality I have ever observed, have their face shown as they speak. Why does Roanoke City Council show the backside of the speaker….unless, of course, they are speaking in favor of a Council project? This demonstrates you are clearly trying to keep opponents of pet projects from getting any recognition for their views and from generating any further support through public broadcasts of Council meetings.
Appreciate your responses.
Hi Dave,
If the Red Light study suggests the amphitheatre should be built along the
the river, that means the city will likely spend $ 12 to $ 15 mil. for the project.
Now, prior to any vote there will be newspaper headlines outlining the cost of the
project, and asking: Is this too much? And what about our infrastucture needs?
In other words, many people base their decisions on perception and emotion,
not true facts.
To overcome this, is it possible to ask private corporations to participate in the
building and construction cost. In other words, if the private sector took on the
project then this would eliminate almost all of the public scrutiny because little
or no taxpayer funds would be needed.
I’m surprised I haven’t placed this together before now…
City staff wants to hire a management company to run The Roanoke Civic Center. The City (whoever that is) wants to hire Red Light Management to run an Amphitheater.
It is ignorantly impossible for two different management companies to run two venues. What?… they talk to each other every time they want to book someone so there’s no conflict? ‘We have Robert Plant so you can’t have him’?
We already have Event Zone…
This process makes less and less sense as more information becomes available.
A few responses here:
- Kar- agree with you on the financial decision making that needs to happen on this issue. The citizen participation is a difficult one- we have many that come everytime and say the same thing and too few others- we need to encourage more and a broader array of citizens to feel comfortable in taking the time to come to council and speak their mind. I will continue to work on anything that fosters this. As to the rest- I really don’t think in all or nothing terms that is just divisive and way too easy to prove wrong- many shades of grey on issues, in neighborhoods and within cities- this is usually a great thing in my mind but we will just disagree on that one.
- Mike and Cathy- good points. Perception is a difficult thing and one of the main purposes here. Once we have some better cost estimates, absolutely there may be opportunities for the next phase- construction bidding- that certainly could include alternative or private public type financing.
- Chris- this city like many cities has several different venues for entertainment and music- public and private and not for profit- the key is making sure all this groups work in harmony and not strictly in competition. Red Light has already searched out these groups and wants to meet and work with them. In terms of the Civic Center, who knows- perhaps red light or an affiliate will respond to our RFP. If we hired an individual as planned earlier that person would have a very close relationship with Red Light. Having all entities operate under one firm perhaps would do more harm- less diversity, less competition, etc- healthy, planned coordination of diverse activities is the key here and I don’t see the current strategy as going against that. In the entertainment world though it is risky and Roanoke is a difficult market- the more professionals involved both locally and on a national stage- the better in my mind.
Kar,
Your obvious disdain for the South Roanoke neighborhood oozes out of your posts. Can you provide any facts about bias by Roanoke city officials towards this specific neighborhood or are you just repeating what you heard from someone else? This drivel doesn’t serve your purpose very well.
The ire and sarcasm in your posts diminishes the willingness of others to consider your concerns and, unfortunately, serves only to show a lack of respect for Dave and the other fine folks serving our city and its citizens.
Personally, I look forward to the day when the amphitheater is built and opens. My family and I will be at the head of the line to support it, use it, and thank the business leaders and civic leaders of this community for making it happen.
Troy
Troy, my boy, Two quickies. Facts supporting favor of So Roa is found in the make up on council and the various appointed boards and commissions. Also, if others are saying it and I’m just repeating it, seems to me maybe there is smoke here, pal. Or maybe others are repeating it ’cause I’m saying it! “Disdain and lack of respect”? You are very keen, indeed. It is about public officials and public policies. That’s politics! As to the facility in question, you are going to have a long wait. The economic pickle which confronts Roanoke and most every other community AND household, will create much bigger problems to be solved, even for those So Roa’ers. And while you wait, I’ll be attending events in my community and enjoying every minute of it. My civic leaders connect with all citizens and act in harmony with the community. They are open and listen and find solutions that work for all. They are all regular people who take public service as a task to discover solution. None of our leaders were appointed by God to carry out a devine mission that came to them one night after cocktails with John or Ed. Tell me, are your socks pink and green?
Kar,
At some point, might you quote those facts directly tying back to board appointments and commissions? Not inferences based on some perceived geographic bias but rather cold hard facts.
Our politics don’t have to be based on responding to the fairly unveiled accusations in your posts - at least not civil politics. Questioning Dave’s ethics is nothing more than admitting you have no rational argument. Again, if you have the proof, please reveal it.
I would imagine the ‘regular people’ you identify as your civic leaders would react distastefully to the obvious biased attitude towards their (and presumably yours) neighborhood.
Good luck with your neighborhood - please stop taking shots at mine.
While I don’t live in Roanoke, that does not mean I have no interests there. Maybe work, practice or operate there…unfortunately, so I elect NOT to go away as you suggest. And when I get some time, I’ll give you some hard facts, but you’ll probably just ignore them. Also, you should open you mind a bit. My question to the good councilman was not about his ethics but about a conflict of interest. But then Roanoke politics does not recognize the term, “conflict of interest.” (Examples: Fitzpatrick, Dowe, Nash, Cutler, harris) He responded, of course. Some might feel that was adequate. Others might feel that when such potential conflicts surface in matters before council, it would be appropriate to let the decision be made by those where the question does not exist. Wouldn’t that be a nice step for council to take? And if the good councilman does not like my comments, I’m sure he can flick a switch and ban me from the board. But until then I’ll post and you can object.
Kar- anyone on council these day should surely be thinking about conflicts of interest- I can assure you I do this constantly and you may have noticed I often abstain because of possible conflicts on certain matters. On the issue I think you are still going on about- I have asked, a while ago, the city attorney his opinion. I believe he is neutral and represents the city well- no conflict of interest in his mind. Though again what you have here is the truth/reality and the perception. Perception is important and needs to be approached with every decision as well but if you let it rule with no regard to reality you may not be able to vote on anything for fear of potential conflicts. For example: I should not vote for river matters, I should not vote for Ukrops, I should not vote for the hotel on reserve avenue and their economic incentives, I should not vote for the trolley, I should not vote for something to do with Mill Mountain, etc etc— of course many of these votes- which I voted in favor of- would not be good business decisions for my little restaurant if that were solely on my mind (which I suspect you think it is). Also, if we throw in some downtown interests I have- boy am I out of luck. It’s a case by case basis and the one thing I think we agree on here is that I will constantly keep an eye on potential conflicts, have no problems with people pointing them out to me, and do take this matter very seriously.
Councilman: You provided the format, I simply posed the question. You provided a response, I accept it. If my comments suggested otherwise, I regret that but it was not my intent to go one about that matter specifically (conflicts of interest). You supported that location for such a facility from “before the beginning”, so to speak and you have, unlike some in the past, stuck to your guns. With no evidence that another location is better, I have no problem with Reserve Ave. I’m actually a bit surprised that someone has not tried to offer the new name of the facility as something which might bridge the gap of old hardcore VS supporters and the new direction of Roanoke and you know we have quite a group of new vets which deserve such an honor as well.
There are other items you have yet to address but guess we’ll just have to get our asnwers for council decisions.
Thanks Kar- understood and indeed I will keep posting on issues. You can also start discussions on various issues through the forum site on this blog.
Dave
“It was a tough decision but at least this council was willing to make a decision and keep the process moving forward.”…
Does Roanoke need an amphitheater? Sometimes “moving forward” needs to pause, for stepping back and looking at the big picture….
Who in the world would build an outdoor amphitheater right next to train tracks, a main ambulance corridor, and helicopter flight paths? I live roughly across the river from the site, back about 100 yards and up 100 feet. We hear all those things, all the time, and we’re not right next to the first two, which the Victory Stadium site is. Almost no performance would go uninterrupted. Roanoke ought not spend millions of dollars for nice seats to listen to copters, trains, and ambulances….
Just imagine an amphitheater inaugural interrupted this way, and the instant and perpetual moans about typical governmental incompetence in such basics.
Hey Dave,
I really enjoy the blog. My question is why can’t the city build a nice covered stage for a band in Elmwood Park and leave the grass and the trees. Many amphitheatres have plenty of open space like this. This would be a minimal cost to the city, it would appease the people who want green space downtown, and it would leave plenty of room for spectators. Elmwood Park may require some minimul dirt work to perfect the shape of the grass area for this to work, but seems like it is set up in a natural bowl like setting already.
This would also leave space for the different events such as wine tastings, etc. What’s the point in spending a bunch of money on an ugly tent when we have a beautiful park that could remain beautiful and still host large crowds. Plus we are in the middle of an economic downturn. We could also come back at some point later and add a tent to cover the audience if we find that is what they really want.
On another point, I really don’t think Roanoke needs an amphitheatre much larger than what Elmwood can handle. Can we really support something that large. Elmwood could be a unique venue. Big artists will show up to smaller venues if they consistently fill up. They would probably prefer playing to a packed Elmwood Park in the middle of downtown with natural surroundings than a 3/4 full amphitheatre by Reserve Ave that is just like so many other amphitheatres.
Thanks for being responsive to so many people’s concerns on here. Look forward to continued dialogue on the many local issues.
Jeff and Charles- thanks for your comments. What you both are addressing is a key component to the discussion- does Roanoke need or want a commercial amphitheatre?
The quick answer is according to City’s Park and Rec survey (Amphitheatre was number 2 desired amenity, second to greenways) and the needs assessment /economic study - it does and could be successful with a couple if’s: if it is commercially operated (Charles what you are describing as I had mentioned on the blog post is a community amphitheatre- quite different from a commercial amphitheatre and maybe that is all our community ultimately wants- but it won’t get us much if anything new in terms of entertainment lineup and quality of life upgrades. Perhaps there are evolving ways to do both but then more if’s….), if it has a professional sound system and back of house, if it has some- not all- covered seating. There are a few other if’s but these are the big ones. I worry if we go with Elmwood and try to share it with professional and community events- we would still have to address the loss of greenspace, the loss of trees and the probable loss of at least part of the library. All cans of worms in themselves. At this point I am supportive of a commercial amphitheatre and an improved community amphitheatre in Elmwood- however as I have said- I am ultimately awaiting the Red Light report, will see if there is a way to share venues, and understand that starting smaller with opportunities to grow need to be part of the deliberation process that will hopefully start with the report in a month or so.
Keep in mind many mid-sized cities, if not most, have or are developing plans for commercial amphitheatres. Perhaps a better way to look at the question is: Why does Roanoke not want a commercial amphitheatre?
Thanks
Dave
Good answer. I guess my question would be what constitutes a commercial amphitheatre. A covered tent? There may be some technical issues with sound resonating off of the buildings downtown that I’m not aware of, but I would think you could provide professional sound at Elmwood.
I think that a project in Elmwood Park could be a very unique venue. It would require removal of trees, dirt removal, and landscaping. I don’t think you would want to have a complete covered tent in that area though. Just doesn’t seem to fit. Sure other cities are building commercial amphitheatres, but what other cities have a location as good as Elmwood in which to put the amphitheatres. Maybe the library would have to be reconfigured, but that building could certainly use a renovation. We could use some of the money we would save by putting the amphitheatre in Elmwood to do the renovation.
Another problem I have with Reserve Ave., besides the obvious train, helicoptor, ambulance noise, is that it just doesn’t seem to fit in that area. Also, is it really the best use for that land. I think that with the new VT/Carilion Hospital coming, Roanoke has an incredible opportunity to create a research park type of office and research complex. Similiar concept but smaller in size to Raleigh’s Research Triangle Park.
I feel like people think Elmwood is smaller than it actually is because of the hill in the middle of it. If the topo were flattened and the stage moved more to the middle of the park, it should have plenty of seating capacity. Thanks for your replies.
Jeff’s comment should be very carefully considered and I would bet few have thought about it. As to the citizens desires, the term “amphitheatre” has been pounded in the brains through the media coverage and council discussions to the extent everyone is only responding as they have been programmed to do. Council need to tell the citizens that when they come out and support events at the civic center, they’ll show the potential to support another facility and only then will any such project be considered. “Eat your peas and carrots, Roanoke, and then you can have ice cream”. But the larger problems on the table are how to pay for things we already have. When will the budget problems hit the local news and all such discussion about this project be ended?
Dave says we might ask, “Why does Roanoke not want a commercial amphitheater?”
Some answers: We have a 56% high school graduation rate; schools that can’t afford $6000 for a simple flat track for neighborhood kids to ride bikes; schools fiscal draw on junk food vending machines; school cafeterias serving up too much fat and carbohydrates, because they can’t afford a healthier diet as in Appleton, Wisconsin. (If I remember correctly, the menu changes there also improved behavior and academic performance.)
We already strain to pay for the things we really need. We are managing to pay for the things that add to *daily* quality of life, like the river greenway. With finite tax resources, let’s focus on the basics before moving to such luxuries as a municipally constructed amphitheater.
Regarding background noise: I forgot to mention the general baseline din of traffic, especially from the nearby interstate (!). Even 800ft up on the mountaintop you can hear it, and the change is remarkable when you walk 100 yards from the Star overlook, down the path to the north and east of the Star, to where the Star Trail starts down the opposite side of Mill Mountain. The sudden absence of baseline urban noise is impressive.
Im not interested in spending money on an Ampitheatre that Ill never attend..most Roanokers will not either….Even if you could get acts in town(the Civic Center certainly gets the dregs..)..the majority of the customers will be rich guys like Dave..the average Roanoker will not be able to afford it..Theres lots of more important issues that need attending….such as poor streets,sidewalks..homeless problem and more…These feel good projects are just that….and offer no real value to the community..
JEFF FOR COUNCIL !!!!
All excellent points. And I’ll bet, as the next few weeks/months pass, we will find our city government looking at just about everything to see what is a necessity and what we might like but simply cannot afford AND I’ll bet this facility will be the first to go. Actually maybe it will be between it and what to do with the Countryside golf course property.
It is absolutely a matter of priorities- the amphitheatre in terms of all the city’s priorities is down pretty low- schools are at the top. School have made attempts at new approaches to nutrition but can still do better. The two new high schools, stadiums and a major track and field facility at WF and a new one at PH are examples of getting things done- not sure where the bike track comes into play. Roanoke has spent millions over the last several years on public safety, fire/EMS and other municipal issues which are right up there with schools. But we have been avoiding Park and Rec and quality of life amenities for a while- the newly approved bond package is to finally address these issues. I do believe we need to have a well run city, a safe city, a healthy city and a great school system in order to grow. Right below that I believe we need to be a fun, vibrant city with lots of different things to do- the arts and cultural hub of SW Virginia- to really attract young families to our city. City Council and City Administration, in my view, is approaching these tracks simultaneously at this point. We are on the verge of creating a snowball effect that will attract people, money and finally grow our population so that our tax base can continue to support the basics.
Dave
I think that this discussion reflects many of the issues facing Roanoke today, many people are polarized and want their projects and concerns taken care of firtst. In short….Roanoke needs both, the feel good projects AND the infrastructure (schools, streets, parks and rec) projects. We need all of these to bring high paying jobs, big name businesses, and quality of life improvements in Roanoke.
Cities are either growing and successful or stagnant and dying. Roanoke needs to improve on what it has already AND build new (like an ampitheatre AND improvements to schools) in order to survive in the current economy.
City Council needs to become more effective and get these done. The ampitheatre and Countryside debates have been going for how many years now? 10+?
Our new mayor’s first major meeting was to change councils meeting procedures?
Thank you Dave, for trying to actually get something done.
I had a really great reply for you Chris, but I decided it was just too full of wise cracks for the good councilman to allow so I’ll temper it to just these comments.
Countryside was purchased 11-05, which by my math, is just under 3 years now.
They did have a plan for development but due to the imminent decline of the housing market it has failed to materialize. Certainly the public has fussed a lot, specifically the Countryside residents, but they have never really mattered and there has never been any waivering on what the City wanted to do with it…they just have not been able to get it done for lack of a developer. As to the armpit theatre, that too was resolved but we all know how little Johnny needed a place to play, never mind that his classrooms were crumbling or that he was only about 50% inclined to graduate…so the community (and children) lost that round as well. But of course we want it all and we want it NOW and it’s councils job to get it done….makes me laugh! Even with the post peak summer fuel prices trending down this city council will face the biggest financial crisis in its history. Geeeezzzz, I just looked over some trends in the city and school budgets. Hang on tax payers, her come the revenuers!!!!
BTW, thanks Dave for the opportunity to communicate through this forum. But I’m not sure yet what other thanks are due.
Dave:
Please refresh my memory…..and others if you would. Why has the city of Roanoke completely abandoned the original site across from the civic center? I remember that a drum (or a few) of waste was found during excavation, which caused a bunch of commmotion. Is that site unsafe for development? If so, why is there a “for sale” in this perfectly located site that seems to be perked and ready right now? With the civic center parking nearby and the commercial area location, I can’t imagine a better and less polarizing location for an outdoor arena.
My opinion…Elmwood Park is great small venue for festivals and smaller outdoor musical/stage events, and, the Reserve Ave location is too close to the hospital (remember the complaints when auto racing was tried at the stadium).
Let’s include the amphitheatre in the civic center complex and have a central entertainment area close to downtown.
Well- if you recall that site was full of controversy as well. Some of the businesses there didn’t want it, there were concerns about congestion, adequate parking, noise from the interstate and whether the site truly showed off Roanoke. Of course it is not right in downtown but is closer than the riverside site. As I have mentioned above- I personally would reconsider this site if red light management and their team thought is was the best site for longterm economic success- we first will need to hear their assessment of the river site. Another problem with this site at the civic center, was that many wanted it to be a victory stadium so they rallied to stop the development on orange avenue. What is interesting is now that victory stadium is gone, many of these same people say that riverside site is now no good?- It worked well for decades as a football stadium, it was the chosen site by many leaders from decades ago- while a different use, not sure why the riverside site is now considered by some to be unworthy of consideration.
-Dave
I don’t see a puzzle in this situation at all, esp if you can explain why the Reserve Ave site is OK now, but it was not OK for a renovated facility (VS). Even you seem to be saying “it worked well for decades, was chosen by leaders from decades ago…” and yet YOU decided to demolish it. Now YOU want something else but WE (THEY) simply do not want you and those of you who are responsible for this waste and misues of public trust, not to mention funds, to have it. That’s the bottom line on it and I’m sure you actually do realize it. Sounds like a bunch of bickering kids! Well, sort of. But there is one essential element also. VS was already there but, the location was not perfect at all. YET, it WAS there. Now that it’s gone, why put a facility back in a location with the problems that Reserve Ave has?
BTW, that’s my assessment of the issue and not my personal point of view. From what I know today, I still feel Reserve Ave is an OK location. What is NOT OK, however is to spend any more money on something we cannot support or afford.
Just had to add one more post and then I promise to stop on this issue. Was reading about Sweetwater in Bedford county, off Rt 122. It’s really funny that a private citizen can get a project up and going like this and Roanoke City is still bogged down with the decision. It stands as proof that our city government is not working at all.